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1 Timothy 5:8


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#1 Guest_sharedtears_*

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 04:41 PM

My question is on 1 Timothy 5:8 If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

I have a few qoestions. "does not provide for his relatives" is this speaking financially?

Does this mean this person is not saved?

Someone was talking about this verse and made reference to their ex husband in regards to he did not fullfill his responsabilities to teaching them God's word...etc, or financially. She said he was not saved period. She said their is now therefore no more salvation for him....

Can someone explain this verse for me in more depth...and maybe answer my questions too :blink:

Thank you in advance, and God bless you. :cross:
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#2 Guest_GrandmaDee_*

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 05:11 PM

1Ti 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.



provide:
Strong's Number: 4306 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
pronoevw from (4253) and (3539)

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pron-o-eh'-o Verb

Definition
to perceive before, foresee
to provide, think of beforehand
to provide for one
to take thought for, care for a thing


King James Word Usage - Total: 3
provide for 2, provide 1

KJV Verse Count
Romans 1
2 Corinthians 1
1 Timothy 1

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own:
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 2398 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
i[dioß of uncertain affinity

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
id'-ee-os Adjective

Definition
pertaining to one's self, one's own, belonging to one's self

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house:
Strong's Number: 3609 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
oi\da from (3624)

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
oy-ki'-os Adjective

Definition
belonging to a house or family, domestic, intimate
belonging to one's household, related by blood, kindred
belonging to the household of God
belonging, devoted to, adherents of a thing

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denied:

Strong's Number: 720 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ajrnevomai perhaps from (1) (as a negative particle) and the middle voice of (4483)

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ar-neh'-om-ahee Verb

Definition
to deny
to deny someone
to deny one's self
to disregard his own interests or to prove false to himself
act entirely unlike himself
to deny, abnegate, abjure
not to accept, to reject, to refuse something offered

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faith:

Home > Lexicons > Greek > Pistis
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 4102 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
pivstiß from (3982)

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pis'-tis Noun Feminine

Definition
conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
relating to God
the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
relating to Christ
a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
the religious beliefs of Christians
belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
fidelity, faithfulness
the character of one who can be relied on
'
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infidel:

Strong's Number: 571 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
a[pistoß from (1) (as a negative particle) and (4103)

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ap'-is-tos Adjective

Definition
unfaithful, faithless, (not to be trusted, perfidious)
incredible
of things
unbelieving, incredulous
without trust (in God)
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#3 Guest_GrandmaDee_*

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 05:47 PM

Here are the meanings of the major words in this verse as given in Strongs concordance on the KJV. I used that version since I am most familiar with it.

So to take the meanings and put them in place of the words in the verse we might read:

But it any provide (take thought, care) not for his own (pertaining to one's own, belonging to one's own self) and specially those of his own house (related to one's household, by blood, kindred -- notice also this can mean the household of God), he has denied (to deny someone, not accept, reject) the faith (the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ), and is worse than an infidel ( unbelieving, without trust (in God)).

I have a few questions. "does not provide for his relatives" is this speaking financially?

I believe that finances is certainly an important part of this. But I wonder if it could also mean providing in other ways since the meaning is take thought , care for. I wonder if one is abusive or neglectful intentionally if it also speaks of that person.

I'm not sure if it means taking care spiritually but probably he is to provide spiritual leadership as much as he is able. Of course if he isn't saved, he can't provide correct spiritual guidance and if he doesn't know his Bible he also can't but making sure his family is in situations (Sunday School, church, etc, as opportuinty arises) would also be a way of providing for them spiritually.

I believe it would certainly indicate that a person is not saved if they can reject what God has told them to do, as a lifestyle with no guilt or conscience. When we have accepted Christ, we have the Holy Spirit living in us, convicting us of sin. If we can sin willfully without feeling regret or guilt, I believe we must question if we are really His - is the Holy Spirit speaking to us. this verse seems to indicate that one who could do this is not saved.

As far as there being no salvation available to them, the verse does not say that. As long as God is calling a person they can accept Him.

[The part about own meaning belonging to one's self may make some upset but in those times the man's family was considered 'his'. It wasn't meant to be demeaning but a form of protection. It's sad that today we find it so hard to accept the protection that God has provided. - - I thought some might find this part upsetting.]

I would think that since is says one's own it is referring to immediate family rather than extended relatives, though the Bible did expect family to be sure that widows were taken care of. I guess I'm saying this doesn't mean a man has to care for an extended family member who will not work as this would go against another verse in the Bible.

Perhaps someone else can shed light on this verse.....
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#4 Debp

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 11:36 PM

From James Burton Coffman's commentary:

Verse
But if any man provideth not for his own, and specially his own household, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever.

Spence has the following comment on this verse:

The circle of those whose support and sustenance were the responsibility of the Christian is here enlarged. Not merely parents and grandparents, but "he must assist those of his own house." Even dependents connected with the family who may have fallen into poverty and neglect are included.
Charity begins at home, and so do all other obligations of the Christian life. As White said:

One of the most subtle temptations of the devil is his suggestion that we can best comply with the demands of duty in some place far away from home. Jesus always said, "Do the next thing; begin at Jerusalem, etc." The path of duty begins from within our own house, and we must walk it on our own street.




From Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible:

8. But--reverting to 1 Timothy 5:4, "If any (a general proposition; therefore including in its application the widow's children or grandchildren) provide not for his own (relations in general), and especially for those of his own house (in particular), he hath (practically) denied the faith." Faith without love and its works is dead; "for the subject matter of faith is not mere opinion, but the grace and truth of God, to which he that believes gives up his spirit, as he that loves gives up his heart" [MACK]. If in any case a duty of love is plain, it is in relation to one's own relatives; to fail in so plain an obligation is a plain proof of want of love, and therefore of want of faith. "Faith does not set aside natural duties, but strengthens them" [BENGEL].
worse than an infidel--because even an infidel (or unbeliever) is taught by nature to provide for his own relatives, and generally recognizes the duty; the Christian who does not so, is worse (Matthew 5:46,47). He has less excuse with his greater light than the infidel who may break the laws of nature.




About your friend: We cannot speculate on your friend's ex-husband's salvation.....but normally, a saved man would want to provide for his own and also want to teach them to walk in God's ways. If he is not saved, I believe he can still be saved by repenting of his sins and believing on Christ as his Savior.
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#5 Wordtothewise

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 10:48 PM

Dear Sharedtears,
Sometimes concepts relating to society in the Bible are hard for the modern mind to grasp unless we understand how society worked at the time the passage was written. Of course, the principles underlying the passages do not change throughout the passage of time. God's will for us is always God's will for us.

From ancient times until mediaeval times people had a different way of thinking about family to the idea we have today. This old way of thinking about family is expressed throughout the Bible. A man was the head of his household and he was responsible for that household. The household was not just his blood relatives but all those who served him & his slaves. Mostly the household members were there for life and they were cared for when they were old or infirm. Of course, they did not hold the same status as the blood-related family.

The head of the house was also required to provide some care for distant relatives in need.

Widows had a tricky position in ancient societies. They were very much dependent on male relatives to provide for them (hence Naomi's predicament and her gratitude to Ruth). A widow on her own was in dire straits. I believe this was one reason that Jesus resurrected the widow's son (Luke 7:12-16) and felt such great compassion for her.

I tried looking up some concordances & study notes but very few seemed to tackle this verse. Here's a couple I found:
1 Tim 5:8 says "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
If a blood or marriage family member, (other than church family) not just the spouse, but ANY family member does not provide for a family member in need he has contradicted or refused the command of God and is worse that an unbeliever. After all, an unbeliever is not expected to obey God but a believer is to be expected to live in obedience to God.
Cnview.com/bible study

“Paul cited a commonly recognized responsibility to encourage the relatives of widows to maintain them. Family members have a universally recognized duty to care for one another. Even unbelievers acknowledge this. If a Christian fails here he behaves contrary to the teachings of his faith and is in this particular worse than the typical believer who helps his needy relations. Even the Lord Jesus made provision for His mother’s care as He hung on the cross (John 19 : 26-27)”
Dr Constable’s Bible Study Notes

Of course God would not have us turn our backs on family in need but sometimes the help has to be applied with a great deal of prayer and wisdom. Not all help is financial and not all help will be accepted even if it is given with the most loving of intentions.

For example, if one had a relative who was a drug addict or an alcoholic to give them money might not be wise. It would probably make the situation worse. However, they might need food or clothes and you might be able to persuade them to get some practical help (but they might not be willing to accept your assistance unless they had reached the point where they wanted to be free of the addiction).

I hope this goes some of the way to helping you answer your questions. By the way, I do not think God has given any person the right to judge another "Judge not lest ye shall be judged". Only God is entitled to judge and He would rather save people if He can. No one is beyond God's salvation - except by their own choice. God bless.
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#6 Cleopatra

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 02:37 AM

You couldnt have said it any better wordtothewise.
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#7 Guest_sharedtears_*

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 02:19 PM

:cross: Thank you all for helping me in such a clear way! Wow...you gave me a lot more than I could have hoped for. God bless you all! :cross:
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